Parliamentary Committee Notes: Foreign Interference – PROC Summary
PROC – Foreign Interference
Date: 3 March 2023
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Fully releasable (ATIP)? Yes
Branch / Agency: NSOD, PS
Issue: Quotes from senior officials on Foreign Election Interference made at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs (PROC)
Proposed Response:
- On the nature of the foreign interference threat:
- "It's more pervasive. it's more aggressive and the potential for damage to our democracies is that much more serious." – Public Safety (PS) Deputy Minister (DM), Shawn Tupper also noted foreign interference is not new, but that a major shift has happened in the last 5-6 years.
- "We cannot paint an overly optimistic picture, things change, tools and methods change. Our adversaries adapt quickly and find innovative ways to interfere in our affairs, so we must continue to learn." – National Security and Intelligence Advisor (NSIA), Jody Thomas.
- "… there is a baseline amount of foreign interference going on every day in Canada that we need to be mindful of, but [that] I was not aware of any spike in foreign interference during either the 2019 or 2021 election campaigns," DM of Foreign Affairs, Global Affairs Canada, David Morrison.
- On Canada's approach to countering foreign interference:
- "We are taking concrete steps to strengthen our counter-foreign interference approach, including by making sure that those who engage in such activities face consequences." – NSIA Thomas.
- On leaked documents reported in the media:
- "Given the very nature of intelligence, individual reports taken out of context may be incomplete and misrepresent the full story." – NSIA Thomas also would not comment on information that was inappropriately obtained.
- "The unlawful sharing of information and the inappropriate sharing of information, I believe jeopardizes our national security. It jeopardizes institutions and it puts people at risk both, employees and subjects of investigations." – NSIA Thomas.
- "I will not be able to speak specifically about who may or may not have been the subject of interference. For legal reasons, I cannot share that information." – Director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), David Vigneault.
- The leaks to media "reveal sensitive sources, methodologies and techniques" and Canada's adversaries "are listening and this could subsequently threaten operations and even the physical safety and security of human sources and employees." – CSIS Director Vigneault also confirmed "There is an investigation under way by CSIS and our partners regarding the sources of the information, the leaks."
- "Intelligence is not truth," – GAC DM Morrison, "It is extremely rare to come across an (intelligence) report that is concrete enough to constitute a smoking gun,"
- On investigations of foreign interference in the federal election:
- "The RCMP is not investigating any of the allegations that are arising from the last election." – PS DM Tupper
- "We did not receive any actionable intelligence that would warrant us to initiate a criminal investigation." Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Deputy Commissioner, Michael Duheme.
- "The intelligence that's being gathered by the Service [CSIS] and other agencies is shared with law enforcement RCMP, the Commissioner of Elections Canada." – CSIS Intelligence Assessments, Director General, Adam Fisher.
- On meeting the threshold for the Panel to inform the public:
- "Based on my information and my experience, for what it's worth… I would say that I concur with that conclusion," – CSIS Director Vigneault regarding whether the "very high threshold" was met in either the 2019 or 2021 elections.
- On disinformation observed during the elections:
- Global Affairs Canada Director General Tara Denham confirmed they saw misinformation being spread about the Conservatives, but did not see a clear indication it was being amplified by a foreign power.
- On whether CSIS briefings [unspecified to whom, likely the Prime Minister] ever mentioned foreign election interference during the [past] elections:
- CSIS Director David Vigneault responded that the information did not reach the threshold.
- On Intelligence to Evidence:
- "Often the information that CSIS obtains can't be used for criminal charges because it's not evidence…To proceed from intelligence to evidence will reveal sources of tradecraft that would be problematic." – NSIA Thomas.
- "There are some real challenges in that respect in terms of transitioning intelligence into evidence into a law enforcement arena." – CSIS DG Fisher.
- CSIS Deputy Director of Operations, Michelle Tessier highlighted that work is constantly done with [law enforcement] partners and the Commissioner of Elections to find out what could be of use. She stated that the biggest challenge is to protect information and employees.
Background:
On 1 and 2 March 2023, the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs (PROC) held hearings as part of their ongoing study into Foreign Election Interference.
On 1 March, the witnesses included: Cindy Termorshuizen, Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Global Affairs Canada (GAC); Shawn Tupper, Deputy Minister (PS); Jody Thomas, National Security and Intelligence Advisor; and representatives of the Security and Intelligence Threats to Elections (SITE) Task Force - Adriana Poloz, Executive Director, Intelligence and International Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP); Alia Tayyeb, Deputy Chief of Signals Intelligence, Communications Security Establishment (CSE); Tara Denham, Director General, Office of Human Rights, Freedoms and Inclusion, GAC; Adam Fisher, Director General, Intelligence Assessments, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS); Greg O'Hayon, Acting Director General, Strategic Intelligence, Federal Policing Intelligence and International Policing, RCMP.
On 2 March, the witnesses included: David Vigneault, Director CSIS; Michelle Tessier, Deputy Director, Operations, CSIS; Caroline Xavier, Chief CSE; Michael Duheme, Deputy Commissioner, Federal Policing, RCMP.
The first hearing focused on allegations of foreign interference in Canada's democratic process, specifically the role of the Communist Party of China (CCP). The hearing addressed several important issues, including reports released by the Globe and Mail (Robert Fife, Steven Chase, Sam Cooper), claims made by Walied Saliman, and steps taken to combat foreign interference in Canada. Many questions were deferred to the meeting on 2 March 2023.
PROC Committee members asked if foreign interference is new and what steps have been taken to combat it. Major topics raised by PROC members included the leaks of national security information to the media and the proposal for a public inquiry to examine the issue of interference in-depth. PROC members asked whether the witnesses could validate media reports on interference, but the witnesses declined to do so. PROC members also asked about the role of CSIS and other agencies in investigating illegal activity and the possible public disclosure of charges.
The threshold for the [Critical Election Incident Public Protocol (CEIPP)] Panel warning the public was also discussed. There was emphasis on how trends are tracked and briefed to the, and reviewed. Ms. Tayyeb answered that trends are tracked regularly, then briefed to the Panel, and then reviewed to determine if they meet the threshold. They also inquired whether the SITE Task Force provided information to the Prime Minister or other Ministers during the 2021 election period. Ms. Tayyeb responded that the SITE Task Force was responsible for providing briefings, but no separate briefing was provided to the Prime Minister.
The second hearing involved witnesses who were asked similar questions. PROC members requested follow-up information on the dates the Prime Minister was briefed regarding interference in the 2019 and 2021 elections. Witnesses could not provide specific dates, but said the information would be provided by PCO in a consolidated response. PROC members also asked about how information is shared between CSIS and the RCMP, whether CSIS information was shared with the RCMP during the last election, and if RCMP investigations were underway. Witnesses responded that information did not reach the threshold. Additionally, a PROC member asked if anything had come to the RCMP through regular channels on foreign interference in 2019. RCMP DC Duheme responded no, but said the RCMP could go through the communications with Cabinet to ensure nothing had been missed.
Lastly, a PROC member asked about the Trudeau Foundation's donations and whether CSIS was involved. Witnesses stated that the foundation operates independently from the government, and CSIS would only be involved if there were allegations of foreign interference.
The hearings highlighted the ongoing concerns about foreign interference in Canada's democratic process and the need for continued vigilance and action to protect against such efforts. The Panel's responses shed light on the complex nature of investigating and combating foreign election interference and the importance of balancing public disclosure with national security concerns.
Contacts:
Prepared by: [REDACTED], NSOD; [REDACTED], NSOD, [REDACTED]
Approved by: Sebastien Aubertin-Giguère, SADM National and Cyber Security, 613-614-4715
- Date modified: